Thoughts on karna

veteranadi said:
Having read most parts of Mahabharata, I do know that karna is nerfed like 95 percent, and most of his skills are not shown, but even then I feel he stands a very good chance (around 70 percent) to defeat Gilgamesh.
If you want to counter, please do so respectfully and tag the spoilers

VilexRoss said:
I don't that it's is likely that Karna would defeat Gil.
the is problem is the curse on karna.
Gil is not that strong physically but his noble phantasms that are gate of Babylon( A++ np), enkidu which would work on karna (due to divinity being son of sun) and ea ( anti universe np) makes Gil a supirior opponent.
So karna will not be able unleash his np which makes karna victory unlikely.

veteranadi said:
you are forgetting gills curse, arrogance, also karna is believed to be master of every weapon which, not sure if it's included but it was in the legends so I believe it to be there. And I believe with his speed he can kill gill without using Vasavi shakti
will work in favour as if he gets his hands on any other weapon he can unleash that weapons noble phantasm.
Although if gill literally starts of with ea, then he will have the upper hand

VilexRoss said:

not being to unleash np is serious disadvantage.
like in legend not being able to use Indrastra or brahmastra, became the cause of Karna's defeat by Arjuna.

veteranadi said:
no actually Arjun released bramhastra and karna counters it using normal arrows, then proceeds to hit him with an iron arrow which makes Arjun unconscious for 3 hours, then he began pulling out his wheels, then Krishna told Arjuna to kill him while he was busy pulling the wheel out.

VilexRoss said:

Karna pushed the chariot back. Being pushed back by Arjuna, Karna began coming forward but then Karna's chariot wheel was trapped in the mud as a result of the curse he had received earlier from goddess Earth. At the crucial moment, he forgot the incantations to invoke Brahmastra, as a result of his guru Parashurama's curse.Being spurred by Krishna, then Arjuna used Anjalikastra to kill Karna which cut the head of Karna, leading to his death.

veteranadi said:
which book is this, definitely not Mahabharata, because the last moments are described in 3 full pages not just simply like this. Read KMG or bibek debroy translated version, then are authentic and verified

VilexRoss said:

Man, there's something you mistook about Hindu mythology and scriptures. There is no single text. Rather there are bunch of stories changing from one region to another. All are right in their own way.

Swagernator said:
It literally does not matter what you read in Mahabharata, or what is written there. Fate has its own rules.

You know, if the female King Arthur wasn't a dead giveaway of it being its own thing.

veteranadi said:
Having read most parts of Mahabharata, I do know that karna is nerfed like 95 percent, and most of his skills are not shown, but even then I feel he stands a very good chance (around 70 percent) to defeat Gilgamesh.
If you want to counter, please do so respectfully and tag the spoilers

O_T_T said:


The question of who would win is nonsensical and is completely the wrong way to approach this franchise or any other.

For that matter it's a redundant question anyway, since a confrontation between Gilgamesh and Karna does indeed happen in Fate/EXTRA CCC.

O_T_T said:


The question of who would win is nonsensical and is completely the wrong way to approach this franchise or any other.

For that matter it's a redundant question anyway, since a confrontation between Gilgamesh and Karna does indeed happen in Fate/EXTRA CCC.

veteranadi said:


is it an animeis it an anime, I don't know because I haven't heard of it before

O_T_T said:


It's a PSP game from 2010, a companion to its predecessor, Fate/EXTRA.

veteranadi said:
so you are saying results of a game demonstrate anime fights, what about plyer error, am I missing something because this argument doesn't seem valid

DarkHomieC said:

The animes don’t portray the servants full power, the games are what show the full power of the servants. Karna is actually one of the servants that is on par with Gil, it mainly comes down to can Karna survive EA, and can Karna escape Enkidu( which is the chains that binds characters and depending on how strong their divinity is the chains are stronger), in UBW Heracles broke out of the chains a bit and he’s a Demigod/God.

veteranadi said:
yeah but in game it could happen that he could actually do so but at that moment the gamer actually wasn't able to, and in games gill arrogance doesn't count, karna actually has a skill which makes him show his power less than it actually is, which takes advantage of gills character, and character count toward battle, Gilgamesh is arrogant and nothing changes that so in anime he could easily die if he undermines a servent on par with him

DarkHomieC said:
I said in games because of their full power being shown there, but to scale them both you would mainly take all that information into account. Even though Karna has a skill like that, it would only do so much for him and big chance even with Gil’s arrogance and him being cocky he would probably figure out Karna’s identity. Then it come into question that Gil would probably use Enkidu to try and trap Karna. Karna stat wise kinda out matches Gil in categories and his numerous abilities do to in cases, but personally I think Karna can win.

veteranadi said:
Having read most parts of Mahabharata, I do know that karna is nerfed like 95 percent, and most of his skills are not shown, but even then I feel he stands a very good chance (around 70 percent) to defeat Gilgamesh.
If you want to counter, please do so respectfully and tag the spoilers

kushakashi said:
according to fgo (which i feel is the only acceptable way of doing this) gill does better in basically every scenario other than single target one shot. so if they unleash their np at the same time karna is likely gonna win but in basically every other scenario gill is the stronger one. (unless you put some weird restriction on him)

veteranadi said:
the skill is knowledge of the deprived and uncrowned arms mastership, if gill can act arrogant against shiro then karna is a lot stronger, also same can be said about saber, people say she can defeat him because she has counter to ea but against gate of Babylon she is helpless let alone enkidu, I believe if something actually takes advantage of character then it pretty much works, and it's not like gill will take him seriously even if he knows it's karna, because he didn't take Archer seriously, and he didn't even have a skill to take advantage of arrogance, everytime gill loses is out of arrogance.

DarkHomieC said:
Saber is a hard counter to Gil because of her having Avalon and not being able to die, Gate of Babylon is her only worry( not really) she can counter most of the weapons being thrown at her and she can’t die( can be incapacitated), and Enkidu wouldn’t effect her because of her not having divinity(Enkidu would be the equivalent of regular chains to her). Gil didn’t take archer seriously because of Archer being a “Counter Guardian”, also Gil did take him seriously to an extent because of the mystery behind Archer. Gil does mainly lose because of arrogance and Cockyness, but that’s apart of his irl mythology( at least for his Archer form, not his castor form)

veteranadi said:
actually if you look at skill, karna is the most skilled servent based on stats, also Gilgamesh agility is c karna is a and also strength wise karna is considered stronger, so I guess karna will do better, also I consider game and Anime different because in games character doesn't come in play, and with karna having knowledge of deprived built for taking advantage of gills arrogance, it's not fair. Basically gill is just a weakling with op phantasms which work against most servants

kushakashi said:

i don't know where you get these A and C (seeing as how agility is not even a factor in fgo) but gills hit rate is something like 5,5,5,8 with only one Q which is ridiculously op. i understand if you don't play the game but that makes gill one of the best servents in the whole game while karna is a stright damage and nothing else kinda servent (does more damage with his base attack as most lancers do but if you mess with the numbers by CCs or buffs or Bchain or anything else really, gill is gonna be the more succesful one) and they both rock the divine-res kit so if they face each other, neither is gonna do much damage cuz same element + res = bad

game aside tho, karna and gill are from very different sources (neither one is canon in the others universe). so this comparison is literally goku vs sitama or something as equally impossible to do.

Bonedoctor99 said:
I think there's 50-50 chance as if gil continues to act arrogant and underestimating his opponents it is likely he will los e but if he uses every power available to him since beginning like ea and chains of truth then it will probably be Karna's loss

veteranadi said:
also I wonder because ea takes time to set up leaving him open, and since karnas kavach protects him from gate of Babylon he may strike him , although yes gil has a better chance like 60 percent if he goes all out from start, which is probably 1 in a million times because as we see in anime , he underestimates everyone.

veteranadi said:
so you are saying results of a game demonstrate anime fights, what about plyer error, am I missing something because this argument doesn't seem valid

veteranadi said:
yeah but in game it could happen that he could actually do so but at that moment the gamer actually wasn't able to, and in games gill arrogance doesn't count, karna actually has a skill which makes him show his power less than it actually is, which takes advantage of gills character, and character count toward battle, Gilgamesh is arrogant and nothing changes that so in anime he could easily die if he undermines a servent on par with him

O_T_T said:


Both of you completely miss the point. Posing the question is unnecessary in the first place as such an event canonically takes place within the franchise, and even once posed is nonsensical as questioning such a thing ignores the reason why it actually takes place.

Stories do not run on measurements of who has a bigger number than the other. Insisting anything should or should not happen as a result of that is the wrong way to approach them.

veteranadi said:
so you are basically saying that if I play the game as Gilgamesh and lose to a player who has a character like maybe beserker Hercules then beserker will become stronger than Gilgamesh and the fight showed in anime will become pointless, or was the game run by some artificial intelligence, which maximized the characters power, and what about the nature of character, because in reality nature of a person determines many things during the battle, answer logical, don't throw words like nonsensical question, because kids give these kind of arguments.

O_T_T said:


I can't even begin to figure out what you're trying to say, but it's obvious you've again ignored my point. I am not going to waste any more time with you.