FireFistYK said: Of course he is, his VN counterpart is one of the best protagonist ever written. Ufotable have arguably done a bad job on his characterization I'm afraid in UBW and slightly in HF but if you like him based of the Anime then go for it I wont say ufotable's job was actually "bad", it was more on an average level As it portrayed some parts really well for Shirou's character. They mostly messed up the Shirou vs Archer fight where it felt more like he is being persistent rather than being understanding |
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| Remember kids, don't be like Shirou |
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desusama said: ssjokg said: Also when Ayako tells him he doesnt smile and he gets ptsd flashbacks. Then ep18-ep20 is just Archer and Shirou talking back and forth about their mindset and motives. Yeah seems pretty unexplored/s Good god, you mean they mentioned the protagonist being batshit insane in passing a total of two times across two seasons? And he made faces? Shirou's character arc throughout UBW is people telling him he can't be a hero and him breaking the common sense of the universe to prove them wrong. The conflict between him and Archer boils down to Archer going "don't be a hero of justice you'll suffer" and Shirou going "how about I do it anyway" out of sheer shonen protagonist dumbassery. Then just like all the shonen protagonists he's supposedly better than the laws of the world warp to suit his ideals to the extent that he downloads free powerups with no drawbacks, holds his own against a master assassin that beat Saber's ass and last but not least defeats the most powerful regular class servant in existence in head on combat. His trauma and insanity are brought up in passing and never mentioned again and are so irrelevant to his character that if you ask most people they don't even know it's there. Oh my god you didn' get any of his character have you ? He does the same thing he gets criticised for, because he’s the only person insane enough to try and live that way. He’s chasing happiness, he wants what he saw on kiritsugus face when he first saved him and the only way he can do that because of his screwed up psyche is through saving people. Shirou will chase that dream to the ends of the earth because it’s the only thing he’s ever believed in since the fire. And that’s exactly what archer did. So Shirou in ubw through his confrontation with archer, learns about the consequences of his own ideal, and where he’s most likely going to end up in life. He sees a version of himself thats bitter and twisted because of the ideal, but rejects him, because he believes he’s wrong. Throughout UBW Shirou grows to understand his ideal on a deeper level, and he points out to archer that he forgot why the ideal was worth striving for. The ideal to save everyone is worth striving for because it’s a noble ideal in principle. It’s just the way Shirou lives it out is twisted. So in UBW he adjusts that. He uses archers life as a cautionary tale, he gets support from rin, and he realises that it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t actually achieve his dream, because the people he’ll have helped along the way will be enough. He adopts the thinking of, just because something is unattainable, does that mean you should just give up trying all together? No And power ups and plot armor ? First of all i'm so sorry if the series haven't pictured the bad endings for you, but that aisde all of his powerup have explanations according to lore of Nasuverse. |
Cliamh-SolaisJul 19, 2021 12:12 AM
Cliamh-Solais said: Mr_Srijan said: Lmao, try again and properly pay attention to actually what he says. Top tier bullshit. I am talking about the conversation he has with Archer in UBW and Kirei in HF 3. If you don't know the context and what he actually thinks (which I guess has been shown in the VN), then everything he says tantamounts to zero. I got so irritated with those pointless dialogue that it became unbearable to even enjoy the show to its full potential. Dumb fanboys will really make shit up to love this guy. Oh you guys are prorbably the type that call everything that you don't understand pretentious. Oh you guys are probably the type that don't even pay attention to the dialogues as long as you are getting eyegasm by seeing long-ass dragged fights that take up more than half the time of the entire movie. |
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Mr_Srijan said: Sounds like you talk about yourself. Cliamh-Solais said: Oh you guys are prorbably the type that call everything that you don't understand pretentious. Oh you guys are probably the type that don't even pay attention to the dialogues as long as you are getting eyegasm by seeing long-ass dragged fights that take up more than half the time of the entire movie. |
ssjokg said: Mr_Srijan said: Sounds like you talk about yourself. Oh you guys are probably the type that don't even pay attention to the dialogues as long as you are getting eyegasm by seeing long-ass dragged fights that take up more than half the time of the entire movie. If that was the case, I would have rated HF3 higher than HF 1 & 2 (which I didn't coz the first 2 actually focus more on the plot rather than giving hour long fights). Please avoid making lame comments if you don't have anything else to support your statement. |
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Mr_Srijan said: ssjokg said: Sounds like you talk about yourself. If that was the case, I would have rated HF3 higher than HF 1 & 2 (which I didn't coz the first 2 actually focus more on the plot rather than giving hour long fights). Please avoid making lame comments if you don't have anything else to support your statement. Oh no the movie had 10 minutes of explosive fighting....poor plot is gone. |
ssjokg said: Mr_Srijan said: If that was the case, I would have rated HF3 higher than HF 1 & 2 (which I didn't coz the first 2 actually focus more on the plot rather than giving hour long fights). Please avoid making lame comments if you don't have anything else to support your statement. Oh no the movie had 10 minutes of explosive fighting....poor plot is gone. Ugh, dude. Like I said, refrain from making lame comments if you don't have anything to support your statement. Or at least properly read what I wrote before saying anything. 10 minutes of explosive fighting? The entire second half of the movie was nothing but fights or bullshit dialogues between those fights. The first 2 movies also had fights, but there was a lot of story told within them as well. On the other hand, the plot doesn't go anywhere in the 3rd movie - instead, we get Rider vs Saber and Rin vs Sakura and Shirou vs Sakura and Shirou vs Kirei (lmao all this happens in the second half) and a bunch of bullshit dialogues between them - half of which don't make sense, while the other half is just trash talk..... |
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Mr_Srijan said: Ugh, dude. Like I said, refrain from making lame comments if you don't have anything to support your statement. Or at least properly read what I wrote before saying anything. 10 minutes of explosive fighting? The entire second half of the movie was nothing but fights or bullshit dialogues between those fights. The first 2 movies also had fights, but there was a lot of story told within them as well. On the other hand, the plot doesn't go anywhere in the 3rd movie - instead, we get Rider vs Saber and Rin vs Sakura and Shirou vs Sakura and Shirou vs Kirei (lmao all this happens in the second half) and a bunch of bullshit dialogues between them - half of which don't make sense, while the other half is just trash talk..... The Salter and Rider fight is 6~minutes. Same for Rin and Sakura with dialogue. Are there any other fight? You mean Kirei vs Shirou with dialogue that actually make sense if you paid attention to Kirei previous scenes? You aren't just lame, you are full of shit. |
| Too bad that last movie sucked. |
ssjokg said: Mr_Srijan said: Ugh, dude. Like I said, refrain from making lame comments if you don't have anything to support your statement. Or at least properly read what I wrote before saying anything. 10 minutes of explosive fighting? The entire second half of the movie was nothing but fights or bullshit dialogues between those fights. The first 2 movies also had fights, but there was a lot of story told within them as well. On the other hand, the plot doesn't go anywhere in the 3rd movie - instead, we get Rider vs Saber and Rin vs Sakura and Shirou vs Sakura and Shirou vs Kirei (lmao all this happens in the second half) and a bunch of bullshit dialogues between them - half of which don't make sense, while the other half is just trash talk..... The Salter and Rider fight is 6~minutes. Same for Rin and Sakura with dialogue. Are there any other fight? You mean Kirei vs Shirou with dialogue that actually make sense if you paid attention to Kirei previous scenes? You aren't just lame, you are full of shit. Lmao 😂. So Sir, for your kind information, Shirou, Sakura and Rider face-off Saber at 1:07:30 and then the entire sequence i.e. fights and bullshit dialogues (as I said before) continue on till 1:52:00. That's 45 minutes. Bullshit much? Kirei vs Shirou dialogues make sense? Ummm, I am sorry, is there anything to make sense? A conversation that consists of a bunch of pretentious words strung together that not only make the original fact unintelligible but also go on to diminish the entire meaning of the dialogue - Sorry, that's not a conversation. That's top tier bullshit. And finally, I have understood that you don't have anything to retort with other than - Hey, I don't have anything to say so let's call you full of shit - Ummm, I think I will stop this dumb and "full of shit" conversation right here. |
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Cliamh-Solais said: Mr_Srijan said: Oh you guys are probably the type that don't even pay attention to the dialogues as long as you are getting eyegasm by seeing long-ass dragged fights that take up more than half the time of the entire movie. Please explain what do you call nonsense in his conversation with Archer ? "I couldn't help but admire the beauty in that dream" " my dream is not a mistake" What is nonsensical about it ? That having a dream about making others happy isn't beautiful ? You don't provide any soild evidence. He is basically saying no matter what happenes to him his dream is still something beautiful and worth trying, which is totaly true and that's enough for him. Where's exactly that top tier bullshit you are talking about ?! Yeah, as far as I remember,he definitely said that - along with a hundred other lines said by him AND Shirou(mostly Shirou) that either repeat the same thing again and again or are nonsensical that have no relation to the actual conversation. |
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Mr_Srijan said: ssjokg said: The Salter and Rider fight is 6~minutes. Same for Rin and Sakura with dialogue. Are there any other fight? You mean Kirei vs Shirou with dialogue that actually make sense if you paid attention to Kirei previous scenes? You aren't just lame, you are full of shit. Lmao 😂. So Sir, for your kind information, Shirou, Sakura and Rider face-off Saber at 1:07:30 and then the entire sequence i.e. fights and bullshit dialogues (as I said before) continue on till 1:52:00. That's 45 minutes. Bullshit much? Kirei vs Shirou dialogues make sense? Ummm, I am sorry, is there anything to make sense? A conversation that consists of a bunch of pretentious words strung together that not only make the original fact unintelligible but also go on to diminish the entire meaning of the dialogue - Sorry, that's not a conversation. That's top tier bullshit. And finally, I have understood that you don't have anything to retort with other than - Hey, I don't have anything to say so let's call you full of shit - Ummm, I think I will stop this dumb and "full of shit" conversation right here. Yes 45 minutes, of them 12~ are the big fights. You need big brain to understand that dont you? You are full of shit. You don't say anything other than repeating that the dialogue is pretentious because there is 1 hour of fights, which isn't true. Kirei's "pretentious" dialogue with Shirou makes absolute sense if you have paid attention to his previous scenes and one in HF2. Again, you are full of shit repeating stuff that ain't true. |
Mr_Srijan said: Cliamh-Solais said: Please explain what do you call nonsense in his conversation with Archer ? "I couldn't help but admire the beauty in that dream" " my dream is not a mistake" What is nonsensical about it ? That having a dream about making others happy isn't beautiful ? You don't provide any soild evidence. He is basically saying no matter what happenes to him his dream is still something beautiful and worth trying, which is totaly true and that's enough for him. Where's exactly that top tier bullshit you are talking about ?! Yeah, as far as I remember,he definitely said that - along with a hundred other lines said by him AND Shirou(mostly Shirou) that either repeat the same thing again and again or are nonsensical that have no relation to the actual conversation. Imagine being this guy. It is the same conversation as in the VN. I have seen people criticize it for being too long but this is the first time someone calls it nonsensical. Then again 12 minutes translate to 1 hour for you so go figure. |
ssjokg said: Mr_Srijan said: Lmao 😂. So Sir, for your kind information, Shirou, Sakura and Rider face-off Saber at 1:07:30 and then the entire sequence i.e. fights and bullshit dialogues (as I said before) continue on till 1:52:00. That's 45 minutes. Bullshit much? Kirei vs Shirou dialogues make sense? Ummm, I am sorry, is there anything to make sense? A conversation that consists of a bunch of pretentious words strung together that not only make the original fact unintelligible but also go on to diminish the entire meaning of the dialogue - Sorry, that's not a conversation. That's top tier bullshit. And finally, I have understood that you don't have anything to retort with other than - Hey, I don't have anything to say so let's call you full of shit - Ummm, I think I will stop this dumb and "full of shit" conversation right here. Yes 45 minutes, of them 12~ are the big fights. You need big brain to understand that dont you? You are full of shit. You don't say anything other than repeating that the dialogue is pretentious because there is 1 hour of fights, which isn't true. Kirei's "pretentious" dialogue with Shirou makes absolute sense if you have paid attention to his previous scenes and one in HF2. Again, you are full of shit repeating stuff that ain't true. Ummm, bruh , how many times are you gonna say 'full of shit'. Why are you speaking like a 12 yr old that goes - "You're an idiot.", "No, you're an idiot." "But you're an idiot". I regret I wasted so much time talking to a 12-yr old. Goodbye, kiddo. |
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Mr_Srijan said: ssjokg said: Yes 45 minutes, of them 12~ are the big fights. You need big brain to understand that dont you? You are full of shit. You don't say anything other than repeating that the dialogue is pretentious because there is 1 hour of fights, which isn't true. Kirei's "pretentious" dialogue with Shirou makes absolute sense if you have paid attention to his previous scenes and one in HF2. Again, you are full of shit repeating stuff that ain't true. Ummm, bruh , how many times are you gonna say 'full of shit'. Why are you speaking like a 12 yr old that goes - "You're an idiot.", "No, you're an idiot." "But you're an idiot". I regret I wasted so much time talking to a 12-yr old. Goodbye, kiddo. Because you haven't said anything other than falsehoods. If you cant even get that then Inhave bad news for you. |
Cliamh-Solais said: desusama said: Good god, you mean they mentioned the protagonist being batshit insane in passing a total of two times across two seasons? And he made faces? Shirou's character arc throughout UBW is people telling him he can't be a hero and him breaking the common sense of the universe to prove them wrong. The conflict between him and Archer boils down to Archer going "don't be a hero of justice you'll suffer" and Shirou going "how about I do it anyway" out of sheer shonen protagonist dumbassery. Then just like all the shonen protagonists he's supposedly better than the laws of the world warp to suit his ideals to the extent that he downloads free powerups with no drawbacks, holds his own against a master assassin that beat Saber's ass and last but not least defeats the most powerful regular class servant in existence in head on combat. His trauma and insanity are brought up in passing and never mentioned again and are so irrelevant to his character that if you ask most people they don't even know it's there. Oh my god you didn' get any of his character have you ? He does the same thing he gets criticised for, because he’s the only person insane enough to try and live that way. He’s chasing happiness, he wants what he saw on kiritsugus face when he first saved him and the only way he can do that because of his screwed up psyche is through saving people. Shirou will chase that dream to the ends of the earth because it’s the only thing he’s ever believed in since the fire. And that’s exactly what archer did. So Shirou in ubw through his confrontation with archer, learns about the consequences of his own ideal, and where he’s most likely going to end up in life. He sees a version of himself thats bitter and twisted because of the ideal, but rejects him, because he believes he’s wrong. Throughout UBW Shirou grows to understand his ideal on a deeper level, and he points out to archer that he forgot why the ideal was worth striving for. The ideal to save everyone is worth striving for because it’s a noble ideal in principle. It’s just the way Shirou lives it out is twisted. So in UBW he adjusts that. He uses archers life as a cautionary tale, he gets support from rin, and he realises that it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t actually achieve his dream, because the people he’ll have helped along the way will be enough. He adopts the thinking of, just because something is unattainable, does that mean you should just give up trying all together? No And power ups and plot armor ? First of all i'm so sorry if the series haven't pictured the bad endings for you, but that aisde all of his powerup have explanations according to lore of Nasuverse. Man stop sucking Nasu off so hard, the Fate franchise is just plot armored teenagers with weird ideals beating demigods anyway. I find it impossible that the statements "Gilgamesh is the strongest heroic spirit in existence" and "Gilgamesh lost a fight to a highschool student copying the powers of a low grade heroic spirit." can both be true in a way that makes any logical sense. For reference Gilgamesh being the strongest makes him stronger than Hercules, Karna, Arjuna and Achilles. I honestly don't understand why people keep going on and on about Shirou's character and not getting it. As if Shirou's entire character isn't just mentally unstable sad boy is upset he's alive, sees no value in his life, adopts his mentally unstable dad's way of life, everyone including himself from the future tells him he's going to have a bad time, he breaks all the laws, logic and reasoning in the universe and proves them wrong. He's just every "never give up and do the impossible through not giving up" protagonist except once in a while he says some stuff that sounds deep but when you sit down and think about it is really, really stupid. I personally think the hours spent reading the visual novel gives people some sort of Stockholm syndrome. |
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| if we are talking abt heavens feel,he was pretty good ngl |
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desusama said: Cliamh-Solais said: Oh my god you didn' get any of his character have you ? He does the same thing he gets criticised for, because he’s the only person insane enough to try and live that way. He’s chasing happiness, he wants what he saw on kiritsugus face when he first saved him and the only way he can do that because of his screwed up psyche is through saving people. Shirou will chase that dream to the ends of the earth because it’s the only thing he’s ever believed in since the fire. And that’s exactly what archer did. So Shirou in ubw through his confrontation with archer, learns about the consequences of his own ideal, and where he’s most likely going to end up in life. He sees a version of himself thats bitter and twisted because of the ideal, but rejects him, because he believes he’s wrong. Throughout UBW Shirou grows to understand his ideal on a deeper level, and he points out to archer that he forgot why the ideal was worth striving for. The ideal to save everyone is worth striving for because it’s a noble ideal in principle. It’s just the way Shirou lives it out is twisted. So in UBW he adjusts that. He uses archers life as a cautionary tale, he gets support from rin, and he realises that it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t actually achieve his dream, because the people he’ll have helped along the way will be enough. He adopts the thinking of, just because something is unattainable, does that mean you should just give up trying all together? No And power ups and plot armor ? First of all i'm so sorry if the series haven't pictured the bad endings for you, but that aisde all of his powerup have explanations according to lore of Nasuverse. Man stop sucking Nasu off so hard, the Fate franchise is just plot armored teenagers with weird ideals beating demigods anyway. I find it impossible that the statements "Gilgamesh is the strongest heroic spirit in existence" and "Gilgamesh lost a fight to a highschool student copying the powers of a low grade heroic spirit." can both be true in a way that makes any logical sense. For reference Gilgamesh being the strongest makes him stronger than Hercules, Karna, Arjuna and Achilles. I honestly don't understand why people keep going on and on about Shirou's character and not getting it. As if Shirou's entire character isn't just mentally unstable sad boy is upset he's alive, sees no value in his life, adopts his mentally unstable dad's way of life, everyone including himself from the future tells him he's going to have a bad time, he breaks all the laws, logic and reasoning in the universe and proves them wrong. He's just every "never give up and do the impossible through not giving up" protagonist except once in a while he says some stuff that sounds deep but when you sit down and think about it is really, really stupid. I personally think the hours spent reading the visual novel gives people some sort of Stockholm syndrome. Imagine thinking that Nasuverse is about powerlevels and not compatibility. Also yes if you remove everything that makes a character different from the rest and focus only on the superficial(and and kinda misleading on your part) traits then yes their are just like every protagonist ever. I personally think that you all are really salty that people think Shirou is a good character. |
desusama said: Cliamh-Solais said: Oh my god you didn' get any of his character have you ? He does the same thing he gets criticised for, because he’s the only person insane enough to try and live that way. He’s chasing happiness, he wants what he saw on kiritsugus face when he first saved him and the only way he can do that because of his screwed up psyche is through saving people. Shirou will chase that dream to the ends of the earth because it’s the only thing he’s ever believed in since the fire. And that’s exactly what archer did. So Shirou in ubw through his confrontation with archer, learns about the consequences of his own ideal, and where he’s most likely going to end up in life. He sees a version of himself thats bitter and twisted because of the ideal, but rejects him, because he believes he’s wrong. Throughout UBW Shirou grows to understand his ideal on a deeper level, and he points out to archer that he forgot why the ideal was worth striving for. The ideal to save everyone is worth striving for because it’s a noble ideal in principle. It’s just the way Shirou lives it out is twisted. So in UBW he adjusts that. He uses archers life as a cautionary tale, he gets support from rin, and he realises that it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t actually achieve his dream, because the people he’ll have helped along the way will be enough. He adopts the thinking of, just because something is unattainable, does that mean you should just give up trying all together? No And power ups and plot armor ? First of all i'm so sorry if the series haven't pictured the bad endings for you, but that aisde all of his powerup have explanations according to lore of Nasuverse. Man stop sucking Nasu off so hard, the Fate franchise is just plot armored teenagers with weird ideals beating demigods anyway. I find it impossible that the statements "Gilgamesh is the strongest heroic spirit in existence" and "Gilgamesh lost a fight to a highschool student copying the powers of a low grade heroic spirit." can both be true in a way that makes any logical sense. For reference Gilgamesh being the strongest makes him stronger than Hercules, Karna, Arjuna and Achilles. I honestly don't understand why people keep going on and on about Shirou's character and not getting it. As if Shirou's entire character isn't just mentally unstable sad boy is upset he's alive, sees no value in his life, adopts his mentally unstable dad's way of life, everyone including himself from the future tells him he's going to have a bad time, he breaks all the laws, logic and reasoning in the universe and proves them wrong. He's just every "never give up and do the impossible through not giving up" protagonist except once in a while he says some stuff that sounds deep but when you sit down and think about it is really, really stupid. I personally think the hours spent reading the visual novel gives people some sort of Stockholm syndrome. You basically avoided answering anything by bringing up irrelevant stuff, if you just read my last comment most of your answers are there. And for the love of god please don't talk about something you don't know or you pretend you don't know anything about. He defeates Gil cause Gil is an arrogant jerk, Gil could've killed Iskandar in mere seconds, you really think he put up a good fight ? Unfortunately you are too blind, you know he has Ea spam and Enkidu yet he loses so many times, you even didn't get that UBW can block the gate of Babylon, you seriously think Saber can beat Gil in full power ? Please atleast raise your knowledge about Nasuverse. As for Shirou, idk if you are dumb or a troll cause again all you said is in my last comment. He doesn't break laws and logic if you just watch it carefully henalready acdept his hypocrisy, and the fact that his dream will never come true but he also learns there is no harm in trying cause the ppl he saves along the way is enough for him, but you just choose to mention the parts you want and ignore thenrest so you'll prove your point. The fact that you still think Shirou is going to do the impossible in UBW and hasn't learned anything means you didn't get anything at all, it's the path that is important to him now, not the fulfillment of the goal casue he know it is impossible Go watch UBW more carefully and listen to all dialogues, the whole point of Shirou is to show the negtive sides of generic heroic tales. |
Cliamh-SolaisJul 20, 2021 4:16 AM
Cliamh-Solais said: desusama said: Man stop sucking Nasu off so hard, the Fate franchise is just plot armored teenagers with weird ideals beating demigods anyway. I find it impossible that the statements "Gilgamesh is the strongest heroic spirit in existence" and "Gilgamesh lost a fight to a highschool student copying the powers of a low grade heroic spirit." can both be true in a way that makes any logical sense. For reference Gilgamesh being the strongest makes him stronger than Hercules, Karna, Arjuna and Achilles. I honestly don't understand why people keep going on and on about Shirou's character and not getting it. As if Shirou's entire character isn't just mentally unstable sad boy is upset he's alive, sees no value in his life, adopts his mentally unstable dad's way of life, everyone including himself from the future tells him he's going to have a bad time, he breaks all the laws, logic and reasoning in the universe and proves them wrong. He's just every "never give up and do the impossible through not giving up" protagonist except once in a while he says some stuff that sounds deep but when you sit down and think about it is really, really stupid. I personally think the hours spent reading the visual novel gives people some sort of Stockholm syndrome. You basically avoided answering anything by bringing up irrelevant stuff, if you just read my last comment most of your answers are there. And for the love of god please don't talk about something you don't know or you pretend you don't know anything about. He defeates Gil cause Gil is an arrogant jerk, Gil could've killed Iskandar in mere seconds, you really think he put up a good fight ? Unfortunately you are too blind, you know he has Ea spam and Enkidu yet he loses so many times, you even didn't get that UBW can block the gate of Babylon, you seriously think Saber can beat Gil in full power ? Please atleast raise your knowledge about Nasuverse. As for Shirou, idk if you are dumb or a troll cause again all you said is in my last comment. He doesn't break laws and logic if you just watch it carefully henalready acdept his hypocrisy, and the fact that his dream will never come true but he also learns there is no harm in trying cause the ppl he saves along the way is enough for him, but you just choose to mention the parts you want and ignore thenrest so you'll prove your point. The fact that you still think Shirou is going to do the impossible in UBW and hasn't learned anything means you didn't get anything at all, it's the path that ismimportantnto him now, not the fulfillment of the goal casue he know it is impossible Go watch UBW more carefully and listen to all dialogues, the whole point of Shirou is to show the negtive sides of generic heroic tales. So by beating humanity's oldest hero, proving his ideals were right all along and getting into one of the best magic schools on the planet where hot babes fight over him Shirou showed the negative side of generic heroic tales? It's cool man it's a story, you got something from it, I didn't keep enjoying what you enjoy. Maybe you're right and I'm too dumb to understand the deep, philosophical undertones present in a show based on an eroge VN written in the early 2000s. |
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desusama said: Beating Gilgamesh doesnt prove anything. Or was Ilya revived because of that? I am not sure what aspect of his dream you think that was confirmed to be possible here.Cliamh-Solais said: You basically avoided answering anything by bringing up irrelevant stuff, if you just read my last comment most of your answers are there. And for the love of god please don't talk about something you don't know or you pretend you don't know anything about. He defeates Gil cause Gil is an arrogant jerk, Gil could've killed Iskandar in mere seconds, you really think he put up a good fight ? Unfortunately you are too blind, you know he has Ea spam and Enkidu yet he loses so many times, you even didn't get that UBW can block the gate of Babylon, you seriously think Saber can beat Gil in full power ? Please atleast raise your knowledge about Nasuverse. As for Shirou, idk if you are dumb or a troll cause again all you said is in my last comment. He doesn't break laws and logic if you just watch it carefully henalready acdept his hypocrisy, and the fact that his dream will never come true but he also learns there is no harm in trying cause the ppl he saves along the way is enough for him, but you just choose to mention the parts you want and ignore thenrest so you'll prove your point. The fact that you still think Shirou is going to do the impossible in UBW and hasn't learned anything means you didn't get anything at all, it's the path that ismimportantnto him now, not the fulfillment of the goal casue he know it is impossible Go watch UBW more carefully and listen to all dialogues, the whole point of Shirou is to show the negtive sides of generic heroic tales. So by beating humanity's oldest hero, proving his ideals were right all along and getting into one of the best magic schools on the planet where hot babes fight over him Shirou showed the negative side of generic heroic tales? It's cool man it's a story, you got something from it, I didn't keep enjoying what you enjoy. Maybe you're right and I'm too dumb to understand the deep, philosophical undertones present in a show based on an eroge VN written in the early 2000s. The magic school doesnt help him at all, it would in fact bind him to their rules, so he rejects their "scholarship". It was pretty clear. And he is with Rin...sometimes because he travels around the world doing what Archer was doing just a bit better. Oh and of course the eroge bullshit.... Was the sex the goal? No. Was it added in a hurry in order to bait customers? Yes. Does it tell the same story even without it? Yes. Was it removed later and still sold like hotcakes? Yes. You are right. Maybe you are too dumb for this. |
ssjokgJul 20, 2021 4:05 AM
desusama said: Cliamh-Solais said: You basically avoided answering anything by bringing up irrelevant stuff, if you just read my last comment most of your answers are there. And for the love of god please don't talk about something you don't know or you pretend you don't know anything about. He defeates Gil cause Gil is an arrogant jerk, Gil could've killed Iskandar in mere seconds, you really think he put up a good fight ? Unfortunately you are too blind, you know he has Ea spam and Enkidu yet he loses so many times, you even didn't get that UBW can block the gate of Babylon, you seriously think Saber can beat Gil in full power ? Please atleast raise your knowledge about Nasuverse. As for Shirou, idk if you are dumb or a troll cause again all you said is in my last comment. He doesn't break laws and logic if you just watch it carefully henalready acdept his hypocrisy, and the fact that his dream will never come true but he also learns there is no harm in trying cause the ppl he saves along the way is enough for him, but you just choose to mention the parts you want and ignore thenrest so you'll prove your point. The fact that you still think Shirou is going to do the impossible in UBW and hasn't learned anything means you didn't get anything at all, it's the path that ismimportantnto him now, not the fulfillment of the goal casue he know it is impossible Go watch UBW more carefully and listen to all dialogues, the whole point of Shirou is to show the negtive sides of generic heroic tales. So by beating humanity's oldest hero, proving his ideals were right all along and getting into one of the best magic schools on the planet where hot babes fight over him Shirou showed the negative side of generic heroic tales? It's cool man it's a story, you got something from it, I didn't keep enjoying what you enjoy. Maybe you're right and I'm too dumb to understand the deep, philosophical undertones present in a show based on an eroge VN written in the early 2000s. desusama said: Cliamh-Solais said: You basically avoided answering anything by bringing up irrelevant stuff, if you just read my last comment most of your answers are there. And for the love of god please don't talk about something you don't know or you pretend you don't know anything about. He defeates Gil cause Gil is an arrogant jerk, Gil could've killed Iskandar in mere seconds, you really think he put up a good fight ? Unfortunately you are too blind, you know he has Ea spam and Enkidu yet he loses so many times, you even didn't get that UBW can block the gate of Babylon, you seriously think Saber can beat Gil in full power ? Please atleast raise your knowledge about Nasuverse. As for Shirou, idk if you are dumb or a troll cause again all you said is in my last comment. He doesn't break laws and logic if you just watch it carefully henalready acdept his hypocrisy, and the fact that his dream will never come true but he also learns there is no harm in trying cause the ppl he saves along the way is enough for him, but you just choose to mention the parts you want and ignore thenrest so you'll prove your point. The fact that you still think Shirou is going to do the impossible in UBW and hasn't learned anything means you didn't get anything at all, it's the path that ismimportantnto him now, not the fulfillment of the goal casue he know it is impossible Go watch UBW more carefully and listen to all dialogues, the whole point of Shirou is to show the negtive sides of generic heroic tales. So by beating humanity's oldest hero, proving his ideals were right all along and getting into one of the best magic schools on the planet where hot babes fight over him Shirou showed the negative side of generic heroic tales? It's cool man it's a story, you got something from it, I didn't keep enjoying what you enjoy. Maybe you're right and I'm too dumb to understand the deep, philosophical undertones present in a show based on an eroge VN written in the early 2000s. Seriously what are you even talking about ? I explained about Gil's defeat and the other stuff you are talking about has nothing to do with his dream (not like Gil did, he isn' the evil of the world and he was beaten by his own arrogance ) , Girls fighting over him ? What does it have to do with saving everyone ? The ( possible ) negative side of the generic shonens is his previous self; expecting to find Kerry's smile,expecting results and satisfaction, expecting to savd everyone like movies while in reality you can't always save everyone. And he accept all of it but rejects archer, why ? Cause Archer is the victim of his own mistakes, victim of chasing his dreams in irrational methods and then blaming it on the dream. Shirou isn't going to do the impossible, he learned his lesson and he will let Rin watch over him, and he will remember that he can't save everyone. that's why he won't enter a contract with counter force and won' become archer. And jeez, his dream was never wrong in then first place, wanting to save ppl isn't wrong, it was Shirou that was the problem because his methods were self destructive. |
Cliamh-SolaisJul 20, 2021 4:29 AM
Mr_Srijan said: ssjokg said: This makes no sense. One problem VN fans have with Shirou in adaptations is that he doesnt talk much or his lack of monologues. People will really make shit up to hate on this guy. Lmao, try again and properly pay attention to actually what he says. Top tier bullshit. I am talking about the conversation he has with Archer in UBW and Kirei in HF 3. If you don't know the context and what he actually thinks (which I guess has been shown in the VN), then everything he says tantamounts to zero. I got so irritated with those pointless dialogue that it became unbearable to even enjoy the show to its full potential. Dumb fanboys will really make shit up to love this guy. try again, show me what they said was bullshit? And how is it pointless? |
DeltaF-x said: Tendo_GM said: No... not even close... Not even a single person thinks that T_T The reason why people hate him is because he’s lifeless, has no personality and no character basis. He’s written as an attempt to criticize basic protagonists who do good things just because they are good, Shirou is meant to be an answer to that while also being a character that is trying to be a hero just because that’s good, same as the others. But his intended purpose and character isn’t translated well at all, he just ends up being same as every other Hero character that lacks personality and development, he ends up looking like Kirito from SAO even tho he’s written as a deconstruction of that very trope. Shirou is just an attempt to write a deep and complex character with the faulty and broken elements of the classic hero characters, but that attempt fails and he’s just the same as them. (I’m only speaking about his depiction in the anime series and movie, the novel Shirou is different) Exactly, this is what makes shiro leagues above kiritsugu. NinoNakano13 said: So Emiya Shirou is probably one of the most controversial protagonists I’ve come across. He’s apparently disliked within the anime community but fairly popular amongst Visual Novel readers. I think I see the love for him as well as the hate, but most of the hate seems to boil down to “he’s annoying and Kiritsugu was better.” I think Kiritsugu is an amazing protagonist and a better character than Shirou, but they’re vastly distinct so I don’t understand why people compare them so much. Now the quality of his character does vary immensely in my personal opinion. In Heaven’s Feel I think he’s a great character and in Unlimited Blade Works I think he’s quite good. His original Fate counterpart was a mediocre white knight type of character. I didn’t think that he was that good at all until I checked out the novels and I do think that the adaptations aren’t the best when it comes to depicting his character. The monologues do play a big part in expanding on him. I certainly don’t think he’s some godly character and one of the greatest protagonists ever, but he’s actually a good deconstruction of a hero. I see why people prefer Archer, but I think Emiya has a lot of depth that’s simply lost in the adaptation. This video does a pretty good job of explaining why so if anyone has the time to view it, they should. https://youtu.be/4W8zwc-jz6M I disagree with some statements regarding kiritsugu. Kiri, is above average at best. It takes more than a few guns, edgy personalities and a tragic backstory, to actually be considered a better character than Shiro. if shiro is a 10/10 character then Kiri is probably a 7.5/10 character, if you want to wank it and bump it 8/10. Kiri is not psychologically explored, nor are his themes of heroism or utilitarianism explored. Where as shiro is explored heavily. Shiro is not just a character, he is a philosophy, a narrative and a message. Shiro exists for the sole purpose of criticizing characters like Luffy, Natsu, Naruto, Deku, Gon, Etc. Idealistic characters. If a character had goals of being the wizard king, or the king of the pirates, or the hokage, and they achieve that dream, will it truly make them happy in the long run? will those characters be happy with the results regardless of what situations occur in the future? This is why Archer is a very important character when analyzing Shiro, hence why UBW was so important. To actually fully understand shiro, not only must you read the VN but I also advise one to watch Kaleid Prisma Oath Under Snow (OUS). Why? Because while FSN shiro is a deconstruction of heroism, OUS is a deconstruction of FSN Shiro, and that's what fascinates me. To fully understand Shiro one must venture outside the main timeline to understand that Shiro isn't just a character, nor is he just a deconstruction. He is a fantastic deconstruction, I think calling him just "good" is a serious downplay on his character. One should also take into consideration, what is a hero who doesn't regret any of his decisions? the answer is Mind of Steel Shiro (MOS Shiro). Many people thought this version of Shiro becomes Archer, but that's wrong, Archer is Archer because of his regrets. MOS Shiro is simply a killing machine with no shame or disappointment. A hallow machine who has no qualms of sacrificing others. What makes Shiro better than kiri? He has around 6 different characters that all trace back to one moment, the fire in fuyuki city, that is when the tale of Shiro Emiya was born. FSN Shiro, UBW Shiro, HF Shiro, OUS Shiro, MOS Shiro and Archer should all be treated as a single character and a single narrative. Kiritisugu simply isn't even close to the person that Shiro is as a whole. I'd even argue that Shiro might be the greatest anime character ever to have ever grazed this planet. He certainly deserves the top spot above mediocre characters like Luffy, Naruto, Deku, Tanjiro, Etc. And it isn't even close. Some characters who can beat shiro though, Probably Rintaro Okabe, Touma Kamijou, Johan Liebert, Shogo Makishima, Char Azneble, Etc. Never have I ever agreed so much with a forum post before. |
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