Bernkastel & Lambdadelta

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Club Discussion

	Bernkastel vs. A Hurricane, Who Would Win? Innactiveaccount - Apr 6, 2011	4 replies	by hitokouji »» Jul 9, 2013 3:24 AM
	Member Cards? -renn- - Jan 27, 2010	12 replies	by Willabel »» Jul 18, 2012 1:12 PM

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Kanorin | Aug 25, 2012 9:12 AM

Innactiveaccount | Apr 24, 2011 10:24 PM

Innactiveaccount | Apr 7, 2011 9:59 PM

Indeed, the being which arose from many resurrections, the mindset of a hundred lives would easily overwhelm the mind of small child. I considered this the most inhumane thing when I formed my theories on my first viewing of Higurashi (Ni, Kai, Rei, and Specials in one sitting. Thank you Mountain Dew!) I was glad to see that it was recognized by the character in question, and that the two minds were reconciled. Bern, as a unique being, arose out of the desire for Rika to remain pure, or at least remain as a person. That is what I meant from split personalities, and for all examples, perhaps the word "Schism" is more appropriate, as it wouldn't mean the same thing as a doctor would define it, and not necessarily a mental illness (and it would be far from the only determining factor). So, you are right there, but you do see the pattern, that in order for the witch to "break away" there has to be a crease, a dotted line, already drawn on the psyche? That, I guess, was the meaning I too clumsily tried to convey.

I'm not meaning it to be a paradox, but a two year gap between events. Bern has shown to be (probably) cleverer than Lambda, and even she had problems recalling her old identity. So, we cannot disregard the possibility that her memory fails her, or else is irrelevant. And, again, she does say that the girl's wish was utterly redundant. And, even if she did remember her past, isn't it the nature of all beings to put themselves first?

Sharpening ideas over the Internets is a fun pastime, and I don't see it as an argument, I'm checking my understanding and assumptions for water-tightness, making sure it can stand to criticism, and not just my own. I am presenting my thesis for peer review, if I am to carry on with the scientific analogy.

I know I think I'll make one next time I work. I'll photograph it and upload a picture if I can.We get to do all kinds of awesome cakes. Doing a couple Portal Cakes this month, er, minus the things that could kill a person.

I suppose if there is no need for thanks... still it's difficult to find a person to organizedly analyze such ideas with objectivity. If you have any ideas concerning any concept in the Higurashi/Uminekoverse not spelled out word for word, but which can be extrapolated from the data, yeah. It's not fair if I'm hogging all of the comments feed with my ideas, plus I'd like to try proofreading, as well.

Neilikki | Apr 7, 2011 3:45 PM

The basis of me claiming Rika/Bernkastel being two beings in one body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0T95OYkh2s

Yeah, well. How should i explain..about that first scene, that shows how did Bern come up with a name for herself...Bern of course wasn't born immediately after Rika died for the first time. It took many other deaths for Rika before she wasn't able to endure it anymore, and so she needed some kind of container. So i think that the Rika that was dying and living in that neverending cycle up to that moment, one time just woke up in the sea of Kakera. At the same time the "new" (not really new) Rika, that remained on the gameboard, still possessed recollection of the past and link to her second part (not to mention that they sometimes meet and talk directly), thus she may still want to distinguish the Rika everyone knows from the Rika she really is by calling herself Bern.
So for me, Bern's existence and Rika's problems with identity are two different things.
I think that this theory came mostly from Ange's and Lambda's conversation in ep4...
But it's just how i see it, i've never really voiced it like that, i'm really chaotic person and i prefer when things just flow by themselves, so sorry if i don't make any sense..

Maria, I say because of her sudden switches back and forth between sweet elementary schooler and rabid chihuahua yandere. If not definitely a split personality, there is something wrong with her regardless, and it's a possibility. Take it as a postulation, an observation to be further examined but for now only that.

i really don't think her behaviour is weird in any way. I mean, it is weird, but not something that doesn't happen on a daily basis with a lot of people. I don't think she has any mental issues let alone split personality.

The name Yasu alone won't spoil anything for anyone unless they Google it. I'm surprised you didn't mention Ange, who didn't show signs of split personality. I'm not saying all witches are formed that way, but evidence shows that it may be a shortcut, or one means to an end.

well. But the thing is don't think any of them came from split personality. Even for Beato, how it was described doesn't really match that issue. Add as i said i think there is more to Beato than just

I have read Lambda's diary. But the time that Miyoko challenged god and the time that Miyo wished to become a god were not the same; there was, if I remember correctly, a few years between them, as Dr.Takano sometimes spoke of becoming a god, that was her inspiration. Lambda predated THAT Miyo, indeed, you are very correct. No contradiction.

so what. You are claiming it's time paradox and Lambda tried to grant her own wish? Haha, that's not something impossible, but...i know she is a moron, but even she isn't stupid enough to not recognize her own self.... right?

Ah, but the nature of science is uncertainty as well. Dark Matter, Macro-Evolution, Moon Men who steal my socks while I'm at work: we've never observed these things in motion, but we've seen their effects. Taking this empirical approach, it at least provides a moderately fun topic of ponderance and discussion, does it not? The fact that it is discussed so frequently and with such fervor attests to that, I think.

well. I for one, in most cases, don't find much amusement in internet arguments, when i know there is no sense in discussion in the first place

I build ice cream cakes as one task at work, as such I am given the responsibility of deciding what to name them when making labels for them. Force of habit, I guess. I think a Lambdadelta cake would have cake batter ice cream, red velvet cake, marshmallows, sprinkles, and strawberries. Don't judge me. lol

ahaha, are you f***ng serious? that is awesome!

Thank you, by the way, for your counter arguments. They have caused me to re-examine and sharpen my own theories. On the topic, do you happen to have any unique speculations?

i..um..no need to thank me..
and you mean speculations about witches or something else?

Innactiveaccount | Apr 7, 2011 12:39 PM

Haha, it does seem that the club has been abandoned by its creators. Why let the space go to waste? And it HAS become more active, hasn't it? The club before seemed to have several lines of interest, pairing, fans, and theorizers. Take it as a good thing, I mean no offense to anyone who doesn't like the theories. The possibilities and and obvious course of action for any peson who read this: if interested in the page's fate but counter to the theory development, post things you find more relevant. If interested and pro-speculation, post replies/more speculation. If uninterested, it doesn't much matter one way or the other.

The basis of me claiming Rika/Bernkastel being two beings in one body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0T95OYkh2s (She claims being separate beings as opposed to personalities, but there was a beginning to the development of this mind set.) Bernkastel tells Battler that she was a being which arose from a human's despair, and quotes herself saying "Nipah" in another scene. We know how she was formed, that isn't something I'm even bringing into question. The rules of Hinamizawa were a bit different, she was able to interact with the game board as a pseudo metabeing because of Hanyuu's intervention. This is all basic stuff almost spelled out word for word. Bernkastels origins are almost certain, no need for more discussion for her. ( I wasn't calling you or anyone in particular a fool, 'twas but metaphorical hyperbole.)

Maria, I say because of her sudden switches back and forth between sweet elementary schooler and rabid chihuahua yandere. If not definitely a split personality, there is something wrong with her regardless, and it's a possibility. Take it as a postulation, an observation to be further examined but for now only that.

The name Yasu alone won't spoil anything for anyone unless they Google it. I'm surprised you didn't mention Ange, who didn't show signs of split personality. I'm not saying all witches are formed that way, but evidence shows that it may be a shortcut, or one means to an end.

I have read Lambda's diary. But the time that Miyoko challenged god and the time that Miyo wished to become a god were not the same; there was, if I remember correctly, a few years between them, as Dr.Takano sometimes spoke of becoming a god, that was her inspiration. Lambda predated THAT Miyo, indeed, you are very correct. No contradiction.

I know there probably won't be a cut and dry answer in Kira, maybe not even any hints, but don't crush my hopes, darn you! lol

Ah, but the nature of science is uncertainty as well. Dark Matter, Macro-Evolution, Moon Men who steal my socks while I'm at work: we've never observed these things in motion, but we've seen their effects. Taking this empirical approach, it at least provides a moderately fun topic of ponderance and discussion, does it not? The fact that it is discussed so frequently and with such fervor attests to that, I think.

The 3 to 1000 comparison was more intended to raise thought as to the aging of witches than make a concrete claim. How long will Lambdadelta NEED to predate Bernkastel in order to have a recognized seniority, status in the world of witches? In those three years of human time, Bernkastel was called the most powerful witch in the universe. But I think that age for witches may be something different, as they can travel even to times predating their own birth.

That explanation of the reasoning behind "Dice" does make sense, equating Dice to Fate. Still, I had wondered if that chapter might have been the result of Frederica "warning" young Miyoko, or if it was intended to create a logic error against a witch. But these speculations are even further detached from strong evidence. I asked about this specifically because I wondered the opinions of others, if they had insight, if I overlooked something. Apparently this is one line of investigation that might yield less than I hoped, and so I concede that point.

Cake Explanation: I was going to let the cat eat some of the cake, so I could make comments of an ecchi nature about yuri activities between Bernkastel and Lambdadelta.

Just kidding.

I build ice cream cakes as one task at work, as such I am given the responsibility of deciding what to name them when making labels for them. Force of habit, I guess. I think a Lambdadelta cake would have cake batter ice cream, red velvet cake, marshmallows, sprinkles, and strawberries. Don't judge me. lol

Thank you, by the way, for your counter arguments. They have caused me to re-examine and sharpen my own theories. On the topic, do you happen to have any unique speculations?

Neilikki | Apr 7, 2011 3:20 AM

The nature of the club seemed to be chirping crickets with no definable objectives, but not any more. You're welcome.

i'd say "don't just decide for yourself", but maybe the club creators don't really care anymore, lol

I would call the words of Frederica Bernkastel indicative of an explicit split personality. She claims to be one of two people residing in a single body.

what words? all i've heard from her regarding that matter was something along the lines "you think me and Furude Rika are the same? You are wrong, Frederica Bernkastel and Furude Rika are different"
Bern isn't like EVA who at first is a fragment of Ushiromiya Eva and only laters is given independence. Bern is really more like...well, an original Rika, i guess. If i was to compare i would say she is like the meta-Battler only Rika isn't like piece Battler but another meta-Battler, who was placed on the gameboard. But like i said, i'd rather not think too much because nothing really makes sense in a long run...

As for Maria, it's a very pronounced possibility

no it's not. Not a single clue pointing to that. Having a meta self doesn't mean you have mental issues

And Beatrice... won't spoil it.

There is nothing you could spoil me anyway, and if you are worried for other, you can always use spoiler tags. Anyway i think i know what you are trying to say, but i fear that my image of Beatrice isn't the same as yours.

(reference on Lambda predating Miyoko?).

well, i thought you have read her diary, since you refferenced it a few times previously. So in that cute little book (in which Lambda seems way to OOC for me btw) Lambda says that during her journey of granting wishes she met Miyoko along the way, so i think that very much means she predates her...

So, we form theories, then wait for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kira, or a sequel to the series of some sort to see if we were correct.

there won't be probably anything worthy story wise in Kira. And even if it will, it won't probably focus on Bern

If no definitive answer is given, then the strongest theory presides.

No, it just means there is no answer.

Bern to age to "Over 1000" (hardly three years)

but it's not just three years.

then there must be some other meaning to "Dice Killing" that every person except for me knows of.

well, i don't think there is really any special meaning, you know.. it's just the title that is supposed to somehow relate to what is happening in the chapter. It's also not like it has to be connected super strongly, it's just a methapor, it's supposed to be symbolic, geez...it could mean that instead of giving herself to fate again Rika made a choice, or that it's the end of the line and there won't be more struggling to defeat fate.

And I know! I want to adopt a cat and name it Bernkastel, and buy a cake and name it Lambdadelta!

why would you name a cake ?

Innactiveaccount | Apr 6, 2011 6:29 PM

Oh and regarding that the question has been brought up everywhere by now: I'm taking the Bern/Rika link axiomatically, to believe any differently you'd be a fool of epic proportion.

The idea I initially proposed was that the Dice Killing Chapter ties in somehow with Bernkastel's later analogy of magic and dice. Is that also a topic much discussed? If it's a dead end line of reasoning, then there must be some other meaning to "Dice Killing" that every person except for me knows of.

Innactiveaccount | Apr 6, 2011 4:43 PM

The nature of the club seemed to be chirping crickets with no definable objectives, but not any more. You're welcome.

Indeed, they are both over 1000 years old, but it was established that Lambdadelta holds seniority over Bernkastel. Based on the time it took Bern to age to "Over 1000" (hardly three years), it would follow that Lambda wouldn't have been been born too far in the past, lest she be labeled as "Over 100,000" or else require a memory/being retention halo. Auuu~

I would call the words of Frederica Bernkastel indicative of an explicit split personality. She claims to be one of two people residing in a single body. Pretty cut and dry. As for Maria, it's a very pronounced possibility. And Beatrice... won't spoil it. Lambdadelta's name does align with Miyo's, as everyone knows, but assuming it a switch in lexicon from her original self when she was born would shed some light.

As you say, there are some places where we don't know everything. But we don't need to be Laplace's Demon (thank you, Beato) to make logical theories, search for contradictions (reference on Lambda predating Miyoko?). So, we form theories, then wait for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kira, or a sequel to the series of some sort to see if we were correct. If no definitive answer is given, then the strongest theory presides. This is very much in sync with the very premise of the subject matters' universe, is it not?

And I know! I want to adopt a cat and name it Bernkastel, and buy a cake and name it Lambdadelta!

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Created: Aug 15, 2009

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